Partial Transcript: I think you mentioned in the article a bit more, that your grandfather...
Segment Synopsis: Al Fast Horse describes the years of teaching that goes into a child at an early age to learn the Lakota ways.
Keywords: Chief; Child; Chosen; Crazy Horse; Education; Family; Four; Holy Man; Lakota; Learn; Medicine Man; Share; Wisdom; Wise
Partial Transcript: When did the Lakota first use the Medicine Barb horses?
Segment Synopsis: Al Fast Horse talks about the Horse Dance and time nearing the end of his search for the Medicine Hat Horse.
Keywords: Ceremony; Four Nations; Horse Dance; Indian; Indian Barb; Marking; Medicine Barb Horses; Medicine Hat Horse; Sioux; Spain; Spanish Barb Horses; Vision; Waterloo, Nebraska
Partial Transcript: You said in the Morris article, that you hoped that the horse dance....
Segment Synopsis: Al Fast Horse talks about Wounded Knee and getting back to Native American traditions.
Keywords: Battle; Broken; Ceremony; Control; Ghost Dance; Massacre; Sacred Circle; Surrender; Wounded Knee
Partial Transcript: Do you think the uh, organizations, the uh National congress of American Indians....
Segment Synopsis: They discuss how organizations don't help the Native Americans because tribes need to be viewed on an individual basis. Al Fast Horse talks about the Indian way in this society and the need for everyone to make adjustments.
Keywords: AIM; Individual; Legislation; Organization
Partial Transcript: Correct me if this is the wrong title, this Head of the Tri-Area Indian Urban House Center, Is that?
Segment Synopsis: Al Fast Horse talks about his organization and how he came to be the director of it.
Keywords: Bylaws; Creighton; Director; Indians; Omaha; Organization; Reservation; Social Worker
Partial Transcript: Um, you were talking about the problems, the health problems...
Segment Synopsis: Al Fast Horse feels that there are services that collect funds that never reach the Indian people. He also feels that the services from all the organizations could help each other.
Keywords: Alcohol; America; BIA; Care; Clinic; Creighton; Foundation; Funds; HEW; Health; Hospital; Indian Health Service; Mental Health; Money; Omaha; Organization; Resident; Sioux; Urban Health Program; Washington; Winnebago
- After this.
-INTERVIEWER: Let me ask you that question again. (laughs) Okay, you can't gointo depth on some of these, on the ceremony because there are religious rights that are involved in it, and everything like that.
-Al Fast Horse (AFH): This is true, and then also, we can't say that oneceremony is gonna be exactly like the previous one. These ceremonies are now the cause of division, has been presented to a person. And it's, uh, he's uh, whoever this person is, is guided through the preparations of the ceremony, up to the ceremony and through the ceremony, so he doesn't himself, doesn't uh, Set this up himself, and do it like a person is done previously. It's done by 00:01:00guidance through our religion. And this is up to him, as time goes, the whole concept of it is not revealed to them at the beginning of it. It's just certain portions of it, a person who has this dream or vision to do a certain ceremony goes through this (inaudible) might say that, it's directing him to the preparation and also the actual ceremony. So for that reason, no it's nothing, it's not a repeated thing.
-INTERVIEWER: I'm gonna get your name and everything on the tape here. Your00:02:00name, where and when you were born.
-AFH: Al Fast Horse is my name. I'm a full blood Sioux. I am from the part ofthe Brule tribe, which is, the first name that's kind of given to the (translation?) group, of the Rosebud Reservation I was born in the northeastern part of the reservation, (inaudible) river that's called (inaudible) by separate part,
-INTERVIEWER: And that's (inaudible) I think you mentioned in the article a bit00:03:00more, that your grandfather had taught you a lot of tradition of the Lakota.
-AFH: Yeah, so this is the only way of education that we receive. This is theonly and the right way. It cannot be attended, public schools or other, education institutions for 12 to 20 years and expect to know all the traditions of your tribe. This is also our education system. The child, or the person that's gonna be passed on all this tradition, and the capstones, (inaudible) carry on. They approach the child and the parents at a very early age, and then 00:04:00this is when the education starts, as soon as the child is able to talk. Be able to understand things, that is the primary part of it, of (inaudible)
-WOMAN'S VOICE: (inaudible) how are your supplies? Do you need anything?
-AFH: Coffee, and sugar.
-WOMAN'S VOICE: Coffee, and sugar, I'll bring you some right down, (inaudible) okay?
-AFH: Yeah, so this is our education system, and it goes on perhaps all ourlives. No person becomes a chief or a medicine man or a holy man until he's well around 50 years old. The education starts very early, and it stays in the 00:05:00family, so they're wise, and that's until after 50 years old.
-INTERVIEWER: Is that always, I mean, I'm thinking of somebody like Crazy Horseof the Oglala, he was a younger man, but that was an exception because...
-AFH: Yeah, they were the leaders at the time. The other chiefs were much older.He wasn't recognized as a chief at that time, right away, he was one of the warriors.
-INTERVIEWER: You also said that you were a fourth son, and your grandfather wasa fourth son, and that, four is the magic number isn't really the right wording, but it's a very, a good number to the Lakota. Because of this did your grandfather try extra hard to teach you things that, or did he show you, things 00:06:00that he probably would have told his own son?
-AFH: When a person is chosen, and when he's taken into this education system,there's no really hard effort to try and teach this person. They know that they're chosen. Not that they've been told, but... The life of that is very interesting, and they're chosen according to that, that education system. Every day they learn something new, this will guide you through that course, you know, (inaudible) life of growing up, (inaudible) and from then on through the different society. So it's a continuous education until, like I say, (inaudible) 00:07:00sometimes might be a little earlier, close to, close to 50, maybe after 45, if they consider you wise enough, to accept the responsibilities and be able to listen to people, and be able to understand the problems, how to make a decision on those problems. Without them getting hostile. So that's the portion of, and there's never any education system of our lives there's never any time where there's any hostility being taught. There's always a sharing. In each phase of 00:08:00our learning, that is the most important one, that they want us to learn, to share. Never to be hostile to other races. But to share and to help, and not be demanding. After all, the land doesn't belong to one person, or one tribe, or one race. Our Grandfather created this land for us to share, not to own and demand others to respect.
-INTERVIEWER: So... That was a cause of a lot of problems, earlier when the00:09:00white man moved in, and didn't understand the Indians' viewpoint on land, you couldn't understand, or else refused to understand, maybe that's a better word, because it didn't fit in with his plans, he couldn't deal a people who had that view of the land. Do you think that's still a problem? You think the white man still has a problem dealing with that today? Or because of the reservation it's changed?
-AFH: I think there's some change, but there's needing to be a lot of changes,not only on the white man's part, but also in our part, the Indian part of it. Most of our children have grown up in the, what they've been calling it, as an American society, and they're learning to be Americans, but that's the sad part 00:10:00of it. They don't understand the word of competition. They think that's the competition is to destroy the other person, his thoughts, his whatever, his environment you might say, or maybe his position in life. To them there's competition, is destroy the other person. And which is a very bad thing. That's the reason for all these conflicts in the past. We hope to find some time where these things can be reversed, and come back to a comfortable way of life. 00:11:00
-INTERVIEWER: Do you think that the education is the key to solving this problem?
-AFH: The right education, yes. Not the, one way of education trying to force itonto other tribes, or other races. After all, we have an education system too.
-INTERVIEWER: Probably should get, when did the Lakota first use the Medicinebarb horses? And where do they originally come from?
-AFH: The Spanish barb horses are recognized as the horses brought over from00:12:00Spain, by the Spaniard, and that's how they got the name. These horses are not about the same category, but there were horses here, before.
-INTERVIEWER: Before the Spanish brought them over?
-AFH: Yeah, before the invasion of the white man race. (laughs) There werehorses, but they were smaller. And then of course they were the same size as the Spanish barb horses, some of them. But then, I suppose the Ice Age or something, destroyed quite a lot of the animals, and the horses were in it. And then of course when they were brought over, after the Sioux had them, then they were 00:13:00known as an Indian horse. Mostly owned by the Indians, the Sioux's, and they were small, I suppose, no use to the white race because of their size, and they're not being able to train them as well as they can with other horses, like thoroughbred, quarter horse, and such but most of those horses came from the Spanish barb, or the Indian barb.
-INTERVIEWER: (inaudible) the Medicine Hat horse, how does he differ from the00:14:00rest of the Spanish barb horses?
-AFH: The Medicine hat horse is different from all places (inaudible) of thehorse itself. The color's different, then he had special markings, including the shape of the bonnet on his head, on top of his, around his ears. This is how he got the name of Medicine Hat horse, because he had the special markings.
-INTERVIEWER: How many Medicine Hat horses would you say there are in the United States?
-AFH: I have no idea at this time how many there are. I know of two. That's forsure, and I understand there's some, but I don't know how many.
-INTERVIEWER: How many Spanish barb horses are there?
-AFH: Not very many, maybe a little over 100.00:15:00
-INTERVIEWER: Are they mostly in the Midwest, in the western area?
-AFH: There are quite a few in the New Mexico area, and yes there are some herein South Dakota, as well as (inaudible) but we have some here in Nebraska now, very close to Omaha. We have some here (inaudible)
-INTERVIEWER: What is the, I don't know if you can answer this question, butwhat is the purpose of the horse dance? Is it a renewing ceremony?
-AFH: The horse dance at this time, like I said at the beginning, it's a personthat performs a ceremony, it doesn't necessarily have to be a horse dance. Many other ceremonies. It's presented to them, for them to do, but this person's 00:16:00(inaudible) the ceremony, and the purpose of this at this time was that the Indian race, mostly the Sioux's and the white's, white race, will be coming to a very friendly terms. And then, with the Spanish Barb Horse Association, and the Buffalo Association, have both pledged that they would like to return these two animals back to the (inaudible) For this reason in mind, ask for guidance. And (inaudible) ask for guidance, how it should be done. So from there on I was 00:17:00guided to the ceremony, up to the ceremony and through the ceremony.
-INTERVIEWER: Did you have your, (inaudible) the original, the vision?
-INTERVIEWER: When did you have the, a vision, originally?
-AFH: Not to perform the horse dance, but to look for this horse, (inaudible)back in the 60s, early 60s. (inaudible) horse.
-INTERVIEWER: Did you have any kind of purifying ceremony before you had the vision?
-AFH: No, just a, like I said, when I first was chosen from childhood, itdoesn't have to go and seek for a vision. People in that world know who this 00:18:00person is, so they come to him. The person doesn't have to be seeking for a vision or asking for guidance, (inaudible) This, vision has perhaps, one might say, he has that all his life, (inaudible) come to him. Those who are seeking for a vision don't go out in this manner, so (inaudible) which is sometimes given to them, or not given to them, he's not the right person, so he doesn't get it.
-INTERVIEWER: How did you, because of this vision that you should seek for theMedicine, or the Spanish barb horse, that's how you originally became interested 00:19:00in the horse, or had you been interested before then?
-AFH: Well I looked for the horse for a great many years, since that time. But Iwasn't very successful. At first I was very interested, you might say, in finding that horse immediately, and I looked for a great many years, (inaudible) disappointment, until just last year, well, three years ago. And the (inaudible) person came to me and asked me, if I know anything about Medicine Hat horses. So I told him I do and he told me where there was one. And so he took me out there, and (inaudible) wanted to go. But being disappointed so many times, I hesitated. 00:20:00Then I, after he asked me several times, well then I decided I would go see, so (inaudible) myself. Then I went out there and seen it was, it was a Medicine Hat horse. So it was a great day for me.
-INTERVIEWER: I can imagine, yeah.
-AFH: It might have been for the horse too, because the men and I seen thehorse, and we made contact, it's (inaudible) like this. Immediate communication.
-INTERVIEWER: Do you think he knew you were coming?
-AFH: Of course I think so. (inaudible)
-INTERVIEWER: Who was this person that guided you to the horse? How did he knowabout it (inaudible)
-AFH: This person's name is Doctor Henderson, he is a friend of the owner of00:21:00this horse.
-INTERVIEWER: And the man (inaudible) owned the horses is Mister Hughes.
-AFH: Yeah, T. R. Hughes, that's (inaudible)
-INTERVIEWER: And, how did he feel about the whole thing when you were(inaudible) the horse? Was he pretty excited also?
-AFH: I don't know, I think everybody that was present was very excited. Therewere several other persons over there, I think they all felt something, I don't know how they felt it, but I felt it. (inaudible) something that (inaudible) very dear to me, but (inaudible) 00:22:00
-INTERVIEWER: How did you bring him back, from...
-AFH: Back where?
-INTERVIEWER: Back to, did you leave him at the ranch, and then...
-AFH: Yeah, yeah, I went out there and visited with him, and that was the(inaudible) Then that was, after that, it was decided that the horse could actually (inaudible)
-INTERVIEWER: How long has it been since they've had a horse dance?
-AFH: A great number of years, I think it's over 40 years. So you see thisceremony is not done just for show, or just (inaudible) it's not that a person just can go and do it, it's not done every year, like the sun dances. (inaudible) another horse dance performed in this winter, (inaudible) for 00:23:00another several years. It can be done, ya know anybody can do it.
-INTERVIEWER: If you're chosen. (muffled speaking)
-AFH: I don't think it has any precedence. At this time, (inaudible) Right whenI first mentioned it, people were laughing at me because they didn't know, there was that horse. Until we start (inaudible) and things lined up, by then everybody was an authority on it.
-INTERVIEWER: That's the way it always is, it seems like.
-AFH: But before that, people laughed at me when I mentioned that there's gonnabe a horse dance.
-INTERVIEWER: You knew how to conduct the ceremony through the guidance that youhad gotten, and really that's the only way you can conduct the ceremony, is that... 00:24:00
-AFH: That's the only way any person can do it, any of the ceremonies.(inaudible) or any of the ceremonies (inaudible) if it's not done that way, it's not done right.
-INTERVIEWER: And if it's not done that way, then it just loses its power.
-AFH: Yeah, right, exactly.
-INTERVIEWER: There's no benefit from it.
-AFH: No, just a show then.
-INTERVIEWER: Yeah, just, so the tourists can pass the hat.
-AFH: Sure, right.
-INTERVIEWER: Take pictures.
-INTERVIEWER: Could you describe the horse dance a little bit, or can you not do that?
-AFH: Yeah, I can do that. The whole purpose of that (inaudible) coming togetherwith the horse, with the other thoughts in mind of bringing these four, I call 00:25:00it four nations, the Indians, the white, and the buffalo, and the horse, the four nations, bringing those four nations together. And in order to, for a peaceful existence. And this was the thought we had in mind (inaudible) ceremony.
-INTERVIEWER: Where was the horse dance held?
-AFH: At Waterloo, Nebraska.
-INTERVIEWER: Why did you pick Waterloo, Nebraska? Was there any...00:26:00
-AFH: No, (inaudible) reason it's just available, only place that's available.(muffled speaking)
-INTERVIEWER: Was it a pretty sizable crowd though?
-AFH: Oh yeah. I wasn't interested, but who comes, how many will come. It's justthat I was guided to do this, and I up and done it, it's immaterial, you know, if anybody comes. (muffled speaking) It doesn't call for a great multitude of people. They can come and see it if they want. We advertise it, (inaudible) everybody know what we're doing, so they can come if they wanted to. (inaudible) 00:27:00
-INTERVIEWER: You said in the Morris article, that you hoped that the horsedance would renew the circle that you felt was shattered at Wounded Knee, in 1890. Do you feel that it accomplished this, and could you explain that in some detail, if you can?
-AFH: Yeah, I, I'm very sure that this has been accomplished. The signs and theanswers that we received at the ceremony all indicate, (inaudible) it's complete. But it's now up to the people to recognize this, and perhaps, ask for 00:28:00some guidance, so that (inaudible) get (inaudible) out of... Cooperative. (inaudible)
-INTERVIEWER: At Wounded Knee, (inaudible) read some other books on it, talkedabout Wounded Knee, and I was curious, they said that the sacred circle was broken. How did this event break it where, other wars, or other tribes, didn't break it? How did Wounded Knee break it? 00:29:00
-AFH: That was broken because of the, the, pain that the white race, there aresome organizations involved in the white race, but I don't want to name them, so I'll just say white race, came in here to break the will of the Indians so we can, can control them. See that was the, the beginning of the end of the surrender of the whole Sioux nation. But at Wounded Knee, when we were, the white race, and obviously Wounded Knee battle.
-INTERVIEWER: Yeah, the massacre at Wounded Knee.
-AFH: Yeah, so that was the, (inaudible) of the will of the Indian, breaking his00:30:00will, his will to live, his will to survive, and all this stuff. But that ended there. That's the reason it's known as the breaking of the circle then. (inaudible)
-INTERVIEWER: That was their, their last, gasp, I don't know if that's(inaudible) gasp, or, last bit of power that the Indians had, with the Lakota and the Ghost Dance. Do you think that from this dance, or maybe just, it's happening anyway, but this dance boosted it, that there's been a resurgence, in 00:31:00the power of the Sioux nation in recent years?
-AFH: You mean (inaudible)
-INTERVIEWER: Well, do you think that there's been a resurgence in the power, ordo you think that the horse dance helped this?
-AFH: The Indians, and also the Sioux, especially the Sioux as well, (inaudible)I think I've said right from the beginning that they're Americanized, and they're still doing this, but trying to go back to a certain portion of their life and live in that direction, but instead they're still seeking for something, (inaudible) and there is nothing (inaudible) There's nothing to go 00:32:00forward. The only thing that (inaudible) good, to do is, is go back to, instead of going forwards, go back, and find a place, which I know is hard, (inaudible) to live in that manner. Not live exactly in the way that they did at that time, but (inaudible)
-INTERVIEWER: There's no possible way they can live the way exactly the way theylived at that time, it's just not possible, really, but what you mean by leaving the system is, they would follow the traditional religion, or, traditional ways, 00:33:00they could still live in, wherever. They wouldn't have to, you don't have to live in the plains in a teepee to be able to follow the traditional ways.
-AFH: No, no, but I'd like to (inaudible)
-INTERVIEWER: Really, really?
-AFH: Better air conditioning, better heating units. (laughs) No, I mean, that,they can live, the kind of life they're living right now, with their families, (inaudible) as they can get, (inaudible) house, but you know, get back to a system of a, way of life, bring all these good things back into our life. Take out the hostile product. Even myself, I experienced days when (inaudible) you 00:34:00can say you're an Indian, you're a white man, if we all live together, work together, like live in the same teepee, (inaudible) neighbors, work together, (inaudible) together, peace together. So there was times like that, (inaudible) looking for.
-INTERVIEWER: Do you think the organizations, National Congress of AmericanIndians, as opposed to somebody like AIM, which organization would you say is more beneficial towards leading the Indians back to their traditions?
-AFH: Neither one.00:35:00
-INTERVIEWER: Neither one. Do you think there is an organization?
-AFH: No. No, there's no organization now.
-INTERVIEWER: Probably really can't be an organization, it sounds like it'd haveto be an individual thing anyway, really.
-AFH: Yeah, that's the main thing, individual thing.
-INTERVIEWER: What do you think of AIM? Do you think it's helping people at all?
-INTERVIEWER: No. Do you think any of those organizations are helping peoplewith some of their problems, or, what's the other one? It's the National Indian Peace (inaudible) do you think any of those, maybe getting better legislation toward the Indians, that kind of thing?
-AFH: Better legislation (inaudible) as far as (inaudible) to the Indians,(inaudible) they're still trying to change us. Regardless how much legislation 00:36:00created and all the help they get from there, trying to make us white, but only, we never will. I still follow the way I grew up. Like I said, I'm going that way.
-INTERVIEWER: So in a way, they're using white man's ways to accomplish theirgoals, too. The Indian ways are going to demonstrate, like the Civil Rights movement, like the blacks did, that isn't really the Indian way.
-AFH: No, that's not Indian way. That's no way to accomplish anything. If I askfor something, and you say no, well then that's it, I'm not going to demand it. 00:37:00I'm not going to say that this is mine, my rights. Nobody has rights.
-INTERVIEWER: Because everybody should just, like everybody shared the land, andthey left everybody else alone to do what they felt was good for them, for the Indians to practice their traditional religion and their traditional values, (inaudible)
-WOMAN'S VOICE: Can I (inaudible) the coffee pot one more time?
-AFH: Go ahead.
-WOMAN'S VOICE: (inaudible) you won't be using it...
-WOMAN'S VOICE: Okay. Someday we'll (inaudible) buy our own. (laughs) Thank you.
-INTERVIEWER: What was I saying? Can you see this day in the future? Can you seethis happening? The whites allowing the Indian to to be Indians, and not trying 00:38:00to force them to acculturate and become a white man? And let them live by their own values, and let the Indian live with their values, rather than forcing ours on them. Do you think this day is coming?
-AFH: Yeah, I see it. But the fact is, it has to be both ways. Indians beingIndian, whites being white. Both doing our thing, but still, sharing. (phone rings)
-INTERVIEWER: Why do you think that the Indian has to make some adjustmentsalso, if they're to reach this meeting ground? What kind of adjustments they need, or would have to make? 00:39:00
-AFH: Well, not only Indians, but everybody involved has to make adjustments.This is not a one-sided thing. One thing that persons involved has to make the adjustment, make some sacrifices, which will be very many sacrifices, (inaudible) I see, I see very little of it.
-INTERVIEWER: (inaudible) you're also the, correct me if this is the wrongtitle, this Head of the Tri-Area, Indian Urban House Center, is that?
-AFH: Yeah, I'm the Director.
-INTERVIEWER: The Director?
-INTERVIEWER: How did you get this job? And how long have you been at it?
-AFH: It's been about a year and a half now, (inaudible) organizes and00:40:00incorporates our (inaudible) Two years before that, I came in here from the area office on a contract, well, (inaudible) exactly, to help the Indians coming in from the reservations, sort of like a social worker, I suppose, and, there was lot of problems. And most of the contract has been dissolved since then, in the Omaha area, so they took the contract out, my contract, out also. But by that 00:41:00time we have enough, I have enough influence, working with some of the administrators, not only in Creighton, but other hospitals not working with them, but (inaudible) I felt the need of such an organization here, (inaudible) reservation Indians, but off reservation. When a person leaves the reservation, stays away over a year, then he loses all his benefits. They need help, (inaudible) so for that reason, I put this organization together, and, formed, formed the basis of (inaudible) incorporation papers, and the bylaws was 00:42:00approved. Of course this was done through, (inaudible) board of directors together, with their approval, and, (inaudible) got this organization going. And I suppose putting them together, and doing all the work, I naturally received the position of director.
-INTERVIEWER: What would you say is the Indian population in Omaha? I know youcan't be specific, but just kind of general.
-AFH: This is a place where, our place in (inaudible) is something like five,600 overnight, so then also decreases about the same amount, same time. And we 00:43:00have always (inaudible) 5,000, is somewhere, is something, around 5,000 is, population of (inaudible) Then it increases up in 10, 15,000 at times. I used to thought that all this happens during the summer, but later on, happens any time of the year.
-INTERVIEWER: Is it, is it a special job market that opens up, and attracts theIndians onto reservation...
-AFH: I think so, I think this is probably what it is. Of course, (inaudible)most of it's positions are competitive positions, and they don't realize that they have to wait several days and weeks before (inaudible) So this happens, 00:44:00well, they just hit it right out of here then, that's the reason for the flexible population.
-INTERVIEWER: Is there an Indian ghetto in this town? Is there a special areawhere most of the Indians live in this town?
-INTERVIEWER: Is it pretty well spread out?
-AFH: Yeah, they're pretty well spread out (inaudible)
-INTERVIEWER: You were talking about the problems, the health problems, what aresome of the biggest health problems that the Indians face, that you have to deal with?
-AFH: The (speaking foreign language, laughs) that's the (inaudible) most of theIndian people here are off the reservation over one year, of course then their health (inaudible) like this, and the health service from America, or 00:45:00Washington, they'll not have any (inaudible) to take care of this need, but now it is, just recently, (inaudible) funding... So it's, the funds will not be available right now, probably, (inaudible) don't realize this until 1978. Some of the programs, you know the existing programs, the funds have been cut on those too, and there are very limited funds to operate on. So we don't expect a great deal of service from the Indian Health Service. Not this year, (inaudible) 00:46:00By the end of next year, (inaudible) we'll maybe see some (inaudible) for the program. So we're still in the same kind of (inaudible) For the present, couple of years now. I'm trying to get somebody at the Foundation to our, even people here in Nebraska, to listen to this and really look at it in a serious manner. And if they have any money to (inaudible) to help out the (inaudible) this is the people that I'm looking for. This (inaudible) organization is (inaudible) 00:47:00tax refund. But that's not the only thing, (inaudible) help through this organization, there's other organization here that's been, exploiting the Indians, and, (inaudible) that much more harder for legitimate organizations to receive funds. Because some of these individuals as well, in these organizations, has solicited funds in the name of the Indian people, and then, the funds never... 00:48:00
-INTERVIEWER: Can you name those organizations? Or would you prefer not to?
-AFH: I'd prefer not to.
-INTERVIEWER: But what they do is they solicit the, money from the government,and then they use it for their own purposes, kind of line their pockets? Doesn't filter down to the Indians?
-AFH: I think that's exactly what's happening, and the people that really needthis kind of service, they don't get those. And that's the reason why I, I'm trying to do this for the Indian people, but it's so hard for me to do this thing, because of what the other organizations and individuals have done in the past, and are still doing, (inaudible) opportunity to join that thing myself. If I wasn't so serious about helping, I wouldn't be doing this this long, over a year and a half now, without any funds. Trying to get people to understand these 00:49:00things, but of course coming from an Indian, another Indian, yeah, that's very hard for the people with the most money to understand these things. I'm going out again, and making appeals to some of these organizations, (inaudible) organizations that I hope will be able to help us too, on these things. (inaudible)
-INTERVIEWER: Now has, Creighton has donated this office space, and what otherhelp do they give you, or do they give you any...
-AFH: I mean, Creighton helps, and they have donated this office space, all thefurniture and stuff.
-INTERVIEWER: Does Creighton supply you with any funds to keep this going, or?
-AFH: No, no, I don't think I want to ask them any more than what they've been00:50:00doing. They give me coffee, which is, (laughs) much more than anybody could ask. (laughs)
-INTERVIEWER: Now, anyway.
-INTERVIEWER: The Indian Health Service that you were talking about earlier, isthat part of the, what bureau does that fall under?
-AFH: Indian Health Service?
-INTERVIEWER: Yeah. Is that part of the Interior, or Health, Education, HEW, or?
-AFH: That's part of HEW.
-INTERVIEWER: Is it, that's a national flank, how many, this organization isjust, immediate areas, are there other organizations in the southwest and in the northwest coast, similar to your organization?
-AFH: Yeah, I think there's 19 urban health programs in the whole United States.00:51:00But, like I said, Nebraska doesn't have any, any program like this. I don't blame the officials, or, and also the people that could fund. (inaudible) that's because of what has happened in the past. This is what I'm trying to, hopefully, get it across to them, that, we are a legitimate group, and would like to help.
-INTERVIEWER: Well, it's really a vicious circle, because if you, you can tellthem this, but until you can give your money, you can't prove it.
-AFH: Yeah, this is true, this is true. Without any funds, I can't prove whatI'm saying. If I had some funds, (inaudible) program said, start believing (inaudible) service opportunity, people that are in need, but for the time, 00:52:00hopefully getting the, alcohol and the mental health program into one overall program, that will give us three, health service, and mental health, and alcoholism. Those three together under our program.
-INTERVIEWER: Is that, those two, fairly big problems in the Indian community in Omaha?
-AFH: All three of them are very big problems.
-INTERVIEWER: Would you say, part of it is caused because they're so far awayfrom home? Or some of them of course have lived, and raised here, but I'm thinking about the Indians that come down from the reservation, it must be, a lot of cultural shock, when they come to a town like Omaha.
-AFH: Yes, I see it as, people that, recently move into the area, not only in00:53:00Omaha, but, in Nebraska, it seems (inaudible) contact, (inaudible) name, but of course this happens wherever they go. But they, they, other areas, as many different tribes involved, they work together in one small (inaudible) than Omaha. I see a conflict here every day there's, Indian people against Indians.
-INTERVIEWER: Why do you think that is, in this area, more than in other areas?
-INTERVIEWER: Why would they get jealous of each other? Just to, you mean like00:54:00between tribes, like between the Sioux and the Winnebago or something like that? Problems of that order?
-AFH: Yeah, that's about what it is. I'm not going to say which tribe is againstwhich tribe, because it's a, it's mostly jealousy. Like I said, you might say, a competitive thing, but they take that word, and twist it around, and they want to destroy instead of contribute. They can't win, well, they want to destroy.
-INTERVIEWER: And are they competing for funds, maybe?
-AFH: Well, this is the thing, there's no way, to be competing for that. Butthis is happening, Omaha is known as a place for the Indian resident, very 00:55:00serious, power struggle And I think finally now, we're getting some organizations together, the right ones, (inaudible) together, to work, to achieve this thing clearly. And this is the beginning of what we need to do in order to get some of the content that is available. Get this (inaudible) organizations together and work with them, instead of forming a new one every other day, because you can't get onboard, or you can't get on the (inaudible) so then they go and form their own organization. Instead of doing that, you know, 00:56:00(inaudible) existing programs, then they can be pretty strong, (inaudible)
-INTERVIEWER: So you want to try and get all the different groups and thedifferent organizations combined under one organization?
-AFH: No, it doesn't have to be combined. Just the existing programs, keep doingwhat they're doing, but you know, just work together.
-INTERVIEWER: Work together.
-AFH: Now they're getting, getting all those programs under one organization isnot the answer. Never works.
-AFH: Right, another BIA.
-INTERVIEWER: Yeah, (laughs)
-AFH: So that never works that way, so, what we're doing now is we're workingvery closely with three, four other organizations, Indian organizations, which 00:57:00they are doing their own things, they set just the times up, and let's get one of these to (inaudible) the whole program, and I get discouraged because of what could happen (inaudible) if we do that. So they're doing their own thing and still, you know, we all work together. So there is new organizations coming up here and there, and saying, well, we're going to do this, and do all that, and they're just duplicating all the services that's already existing here.
-INTERVIEWER: So I would imagine you also feel that if you can get theseorganizations to work together, besides the fact of getting the, being able to help more people, you'll be able to get more funding too, because you'll be better, something that people can say, well look at this, you know, they'd be out there doing all these things.
-AFH: Yeah this is true. The better we work together, the better any00:58:00organization can exist, and give the service that (inaudible) (phone rings)
-INTERVIEWER: What kind of services that your organization offers?
-AFH: Well, with the funds available, we hope to, get some contract clarityservices for people that need (inaudible) and also those that are apt to be in a hospital for a great length of time. We have made arrangements with some of the Indian Health Service hospitals in the area, not only in Nebraska, but South Dakota, to hospitalize some of these long term, hospitalization cases. But like 00:59:00I said the funds are, are something that we need very badly.
-INTERVIEWER: Yeah. How would you, maybe that's really the only way you can, youcan pay for these people that you, at the hospitals, in ICU, or whatever, there's no other way that you can pay for them, right?
-AFH: No, there's no other way. Most of these people, they're not qualifiedthrough the welfare, or Medicaid, or Medicare.
-INTERVIEWER: Why is that?
-AFH: They don't have a residence, (inaudible) approved residence. They're theones that really need this sort of care, naturally, because they don't, they don't have a place to stay, and they're gonna get sick right away. Nobody is here to care for them. 01:00:00
-INTERVIEWER: If you, if you got these funds, would you like to, like you set upanother office, (inaudible) a lot of people, that, or maybe set out maybe a newspaper or something that would inform people of your services, and the other Indian organizations (inaudible) services? Something like that, so that people would be more aware of it, or do you think that the Indian people know, pretty much about what's the services?
-AFH: Yeah, they pretty much know (inaudible) We don't get (inaudible) With thefunds some available we can use some (inaudible) workers, will be in contact with all these people at all times. They will be able to transport them to any clinic, or wherever we contract. For immediate care, we are on call for 24 01:01:00hours. (inaudible) on call for 24 hours. Be able to give them this kind of service.
-INTERVIEWER: Well, I really can't think about, unless there's anything elsethat you would like to say? To wrap this up? I hope you get that, (inaudible) in the way that you wanted to, when you're talking about going back. I hope you can do that soon, you can get this all straightened out here.
-AFH: Yeah, this is something that I'm looking very forward to. At times I'manxious for it, but, through previous experience, and guidance, there's no time 01:02:00to be anxious for anything. When it comes, it will come. Just be ready when it comes. (laughs)