Omaha Folklore Project: Interview with Herman August Eggert

.

-ELSIE ANN COLTOTT (EC): This is an interview with Mr. Herman Eggert of 432 West Military Fremont, Nebraska. Retired farmer, baseball player and veterans representative of the United States Department of Labor. This interview is being conducted on December five, 1975 at the Herman Eggert home in Fremont, Nebraska. The interviewer is Elsie Ann Coltott of Fremont Nebraska, representing History 111 of the University of Nebraska at Omaha. Doctor Mike, Mike Tate, instructor. Herman I understand that your parents were immigrants to the United States. 00:01:00Could you tell me something about your parents?

-HERMAN AUGUST EGGERT (HE): My parents? Sure. Emigrated to this country in the 19th century. Their names were... My father's name was Johann Heinrich August Eggert and he was born August, 13th 1839, in Langendorf in Anhalt, Germany. He died October the 6th 1927. My mother's name was Wilhelmina Nehring. She was born November the 18th, at Jaszcz, Eastpreußen, Germany. Died November 23rd, 1933. Both are resting, at the cemetery near Arlington, Nebraska. Both 00:02:00parents were hard working, economical, and fun-loving people. My father served in the German Navy. He migrated to the United States and settled near Eitzen, Minnesota, where he tilled the land and worked with the farmland, for about three years. After a few years he came to Lyons, Nebraska in 1874 where he did just the opposite. He planted trees all over the village of Lyons, and the land that Mr. Lyons owned nearby. And many of these trees are still standing but one tree in particular I like to make reference to is a tree that he planted in the 00:03:00middle of the town which grew to be a very big tree with much written about in the local papers and in the daily papers because it was the place that they hanged villians, Bugsy Malone, where the people of the village came and lived with it and going all about their doings, and how they got along and what was wrong with the town. He came to this country for a better living which consisted... His belongings consisted of two dollars, and the clothes he had on his back. That was the time the great migration of the German people took place. 00:04:00To the east, to the Ukraine, and to the west to the United States. And how we should thank our God, that our parents migrated to the United States instead of the Ukraine where there's nothing but Communism now. Mother came to the United States in 1880, locating near Winside, Nebraska. They met in the United States and were married at Norfolk, Nebraska, 1882. My father had been farming 80 acres, which he had purchased and after their marriage, they bought another 80 acres which was farm. Farm, raising livestock, cattle, hogs, horses, and 00:05:00poultry, using oxen and horses to break the dirt. While working for an employer. Their relationship was always good, they were hard working, reliable people. The family home was a large, two-story, eight-roomed house. Not modern. 13... 12 children were born, here and raised. Four of them died early. At an early age. Discipline was given by both the father and the mother, (microphone tapped) old-fashioned spankings were used to keep order.

-EC: Ah, mmhmm. When were you born, Herman?

-HE: I was born March 29th, 1894, Lyons, Nebraska.

-EC: What memories do you have of your early childhood at home?

-HE: One of my earliest memories which many people dispute that I had was I was present when one of my sisters died who was older than I was, and father had gone to the village to get a doctor and while he was gone, she passed away and I remember my mother picking her up in her arms and hugging her and saying a prayer, and I still remember the prayer. I still remember the prayer to this day. It was in the German language. (recites prayer in German) And... Is that 00:07:00it? And we all went to the same school had our religious training and after confirmation we all went to the public schools and we were never behind in grades but at that time the training in the secular sciences was not as confused as it is today. But we all got a fine education and I especially am thankful that I could take my high school and two years of college at Concordia Seminary 00:08:00at Seward Nebraska where I was in school from 1907 to 1912.

-EC: What was the determining factor of your attending school at Concordia? Rather than a public school?

-HE: My pastor and my parents advised me that I should go in the teaching profession but after going that far I didn't think that I would ever get good enough in music to play in a church, or probably not good enough with school. And I had quite a athletic program at Seward and I got interested in baseball in 19 hundred and 12. I went out after school let out to play professional 00:09:00baseball. And after five months, four and a half, five months of professional baseball, I didn't like it too well. I didn't like being away from home, my brothers and sisters, I got homesick, when that season was over, I made up my mind that I was not going to play professional baseball. So, then I started playing semi-pro baseball, And played it for almost 45 years.

-EC: What teams did you play with?

-HE: What?

-EC: What teams did you play with?

-HE: I started out at... Professional baseball, I started out at Vancouver, British Columbia. The new Northwest League. And in semi-professional baseball I 00:10:00played for many states, mostly Nebraska, Iowa, South Dakota, Minnesota. (coughs) Some in Colorado. That was a long period of years. And I still remember the first baseball game that I got paid for when I was a youngster, before I went in professional baseball, but I traveled practically two nights and a day to get to the place, and I was taken to Decatur in a car, from there they hauled us in buggies over to Onawa, Iowa. And there were scouts at that camp again. But I still remember that was one... At this time, there was one of the Wright 00:11:00brothers' airplane flats, a big, shindig at at Onawa, and they flew this plane, they started it up, flew it about a half a mile and back again, that was it, and then we played the ball game. And I remember... Still remember the place I stayed. And I remember how I got home, they took me back to Decatur in storage, and fed me again, and loaded me up, brought me home. Got home about three o'clock in the morning, Mother was still waiting for me, up, and she was a kind mother, she came out to see them again near the house and invited the driver in to water his horses and come in have a cup of coffee with us. So he did. And I remember what I got, I got two dollars for all that.

-EC: Two dollars for your first ball game?

-HE: Yep.

-EC: I understand that you also continued your baseball career while you were in the service. Would you like to tell me about that?

-HE: Yes, when I entered the service in 19 hundred and 18, the second day that I was there I was called up to the commanding officer for an interview cause they needed an instructor in calisthenics in physical education for the doctors and dentists that were being trained at this Army camp. And I was chosen to be the, their instructor in calisthenics. And we all know that most of the doctors and dentists were not particularly good at physical condition, so I worked with them for about six months before they were fit to go out in the 00:13:00field and join a division of some kind. And while there I also played baseball with many big league ball players from both leagues, played with 'em, played against them. I also played football against some of the top football players of the day especially The Galloping Ghost from Illinois, Red Grange. Who I had the pleasure of playing against three times while I was in the service. And some of these ball players that were there that I remember the names of very distinctly that I played with and against, Harry Coveleski, Cleveland, Guy Morton of Cleveland, Glaser of Detroit, Stueland, Chicago, Kaufmann of Chicago, and many 00:14:00infielders and outfielders, Tex Jones of the White Sox, and I did take the job away from a catcher who was then a backup catcher, under Roger Bresnehan of the New York Giants, by the name of Snyder, who we then converted into an outfield. The first game that I played in, while in the service, I happened to hit two home runs in one game. This fine recollection, many years after, some body came and tapped me on the shoulder, while I had coffee at a restaurant here in Fremont. He said, "you don't know me, do ya?" I says, "I sure don't." "Well," he says, "I can remember you!" I said, "How do you remember me?" He says, "I saw 00:15:00you play baseball in the service, I saw you in one ball game where you hit two line shot home runs offa Harry Coveleski of the Cleveland Indians." He says, "I couldn't believe it." (microphone tapped)

-EC: Where did... Where were you stationed at during your service?

-HE: I was stationed all my time at Fort Riley, Kansas. Never did move. I was on three or four pullouts went to fill out the 89th Division at Fort Lewis but they cleaned me off and said I had to stay.

-EC: I understand that blacks were very much discriminated against even in the early 20th century and this was true even in baseball. Could you tell me a little bit about that?

-HE: Well as far as the blacks were concerned they had many black ball 00:16:00players that I played with and against that were top caliber as good as any in the major leagues. But there seemed to be an unwritten law that they could not join, nobody would take them in the big leagues. Until later on Jackie Robinson broke the race color and they brought him up at the Brooklyn Dodgers. And since then of course, there are many of the black people playing doing a fine job and behaving themselves just as good if not better than the white ones. And I played with a lot of them, I always got along with them, they they were human beings, they would sit and cry with you, they'd sing and have fun with you if you won if 00:17:00you lost it probably was the opposite, and I got along fine with them and still do to this day.

-EC: How were the key decisions made in your parents' family?

-HE: My parents' family?

-EC: Mmhmm.

-HE: Well they were made mostly by my mother and father, they were very fair minded in their resolutions, that they put to us, and they expected us to fulfill them to the best of our ability, and we, of course, a child always forgets that he was once a little calf too. But they were very fair with with the family, brought a lot up, did everything for 'em, I think that they'd go 00:18:00hungry so we would have something to eat. And you couldn't expect more. We always had enough to eat, we always had clothes to wear. We were a very close-knit family while we were growing up, very close. Sometimes when you grow older that family isn't so closely knit anymore. They go their opposite ways, and they lose some of them in their own way, and they know some of 'em don't seem to know what it is to forgive and forget. And as a youngster, you may get in a little tangle with your brother or your sister but you turn around the next corner of the house and you're just as big of friends as you ever were!

-EC: I understand that religion was a very important part of your life. Who 00:19:00was responsible primarily for the religious training that you received?

-HE: Well the religious training again was I think, My mother did the biggest part of it. She had a very good education at that time which amounted to at least a high school for a person coming out of Germany, and she had a memory that was astounding! She would enter church services and sing all the hymns that were being played and never looked at a hymn book. And she would sit and sing to the children before they went to bed, one song after another, practically every night, in our youth.

-EC: Were family devotions also held in your home?

-HE: Yes and when we didn't have any service, we had, what they called at that time, a regular service out of, which my father read, out of a German publication. He would read that when there wasn't any service or the weather was too bad and we couldn't head out in the country, we always had services. Always.

-EC: You said that you had attended religious school in Seward was there a church affiliated school in Lyons? A parochial school?

-HE: Yes. It was taught by the pastor, for a number of years. I got all of my training at that parochial school taught by the pastor, and but later on they did have teachers.

-EC: And what training did the teachers have?

-HE: They were all kind of, Seward, Nebraska.

-EC: At Concordia?

-HE: At Concordia.

-EC: Mmhmm.

-HE: We had, I think while I was there, we had three of them. Three teachers. I didn't go to school with them.

-EC: Was this customary for the church that you belonged to to have parochial schools?

-HE: Yes, well, Some had them, some didn't. But we had one long as I went to school there. All of my sisters and brothers got the same training. They had some at other places. They had them at Bancroft, they had them at Oakland, they had them at Scribner. But there were a number of congregations that didn't have them.

-EC: What do you think is the advantage of having a parochial school over say a public school?

-HE: Well, there's quite a bit of advantage. Because aside your secular training, you get the spiritual training. Things that are just probably more useful to you in the long run than the secular education. Cause you have the piece of mind, you know where to go for help. Many times we think we can do everything ourselves but we can't do and there comes a time when you can't do things that only the almighty God can do. For instance heal you, when you're 00:23:00sick. Doctors can only alleviate that but they can't do the healing. As you grow older you feel more thankful that you have had a training that can take you to death and to heaven.

-EC: Did you feel any disadvantages in going to a parochial school rather than a public school?

-HE: No I didn't, as I said previously, I said we after Easter we always entered a, (coughs) a public school, but at the end of the term, we never missed a grade, no. Those that have any knowledge affinity you can always find somebody that is backward in both secular and spiritual training. It's harder to get to 00:24:00them than it is the others that are normal people. So many people.

-EC: Did your religious activities or church functions continue into your adult life?

-HE: I've had quite a bit of work that I've done while a member of the church. I've been on a number of boards. I've served as... On the governing board of the Lutheran Laymen's League of the Nebraska district for six years as their treasurer. Also served with the Board of Education of the northern Nebraska district for six years and six years on the mission board. 22 years on 00:25:00the dairy board. As a member of St. John's Church in Lyons, at last I served 19 years as their treasurer. As a member of Trinity Lutheran Church in Fremont I served six years as the chairman of the elders. I attended numerous conventions of the northern Nebraska district and one national convention. at Houston Texas where I was the lead delegate for the committee member to dealing with missions. I went to this convention one week prior to the convention where we studied and heard reports from all over the world on missions and then drew up the 00:26:00resolutions presented to the conventions for adoption. While on that convention I only had one night off in the two weeks and that night I attended the ball game. Most other evenings we would have to go back in session sometimes until one o'clock at night, deal with convention turnovers of our resolutions, where they want a different wording or we'd have to hear another report. So I had a very busy time of it. But the highlights of my church work came in the early '30s during the drought and Depression. When we as a church body, or the senate, 00:27:00had a deficit of about three million dollars. And nobody had any money and they didn't know how they was going to erase that deficit 'til finally the senate asked all the districts to make an honest effort to reduce that deficit. And many meetings were held, all the separate districts where they would take part in this endeavor and many of us thought it was impossible to raise even any part of that money, in that period of time when there were no crops, and the dollar wasn't worth... Or the dollar was so high-priced, you couldn't get ahold of them 00:28:00cause all your produce, whatever you had to sell didn't bring anything, but after much discussion we, the northern Nebraska district, went along with them. And lo, to all of our surprise, after one year, the deficit had been erased, and we'd raised four million dollars instead of three million dollars. Glory to our God.

-EC: What methods were used to raise this money for the church?

-HE: Well, the congregation that I belonged to, we we elected four members to see every one in our congregation for a donation of some kind to erase at 00:29:00least part of this deficit and surely many of the people had to sell either a hog or give them a hog since they weren't worth only three dollars a hundred so it wasn't too much but some didn't have any hogs, they'd sell potatoes, sold apples, eggs, poultry, they'd give that money. And a few of them had money, they gave money. But very few of them had money, only the idle rich. (chuckles) What the other ones did I don't know but that's what we did in our congregation. It panned out very well.

-EC: Was this drive nation-wide?

-HE: Huh?

-EC: Was this drive nation-wide?

-HE: Yes. It was nation-wide wherever we had congregations, I think all 00:30:00except one district, I think, excepted, didn't go along with it but maybe they took up some money anyway. But they didn't officially go along with it as I understand it at that time.

-EC: What church are you affiliated with?

-HE: Lutheran Church Missouri Synod which was then known as Lutheran Church Missouri, Ohio, and Other States.

-EC: You were talking about people not having very much money at that time, how did the Depression affect you and your family?

-HE: Well, naturally, we were living on a farm, we had our poultry, we had our milk, butter, cream, eggs, potatoes, fruits, a large orchard. We raised 00:31:00vegetables, though as far as living was concerned we surely did not suffer any. We had plenty to eat and we didn't get much clothes but what we got we needed and we used. And the Depression or the drought will wreck our country nearly not so fast as the moral standards of our people, which is deteriorating, from the home on down, at alarming rates. And surely, no nation has ever or will ever 00:32:00continue to grow and be prosperous if we don't put a stop to the moral decay of our wonderful, beautiful nation.

-EC: In what way do you feel that people had greater values or higher morals several years ago as compared to now?

-HE: Well as I was growing up and finding the people the divorce rate the parting rate of families, man and wife, and families themselves, it is a decay 00:33:00that has crept on and crept on and crept on, ever since Hollywood came into the spirit.

-EC: Do you feel that, through the movies, then Hollywood has contributed to the moral decay of our country?

-HE: Surely has.

-EC: What sort of entertainment did you have as a youngster or when you and your wife were courting prior to your marriage?

-HE: Oh we made our own entertainment. We attended parties, we had sleigh rides, we had hay rack rides. We'd gather around a piano or an organ in the 00:34:00house, sang. Played games in the house, we'd go out skating, roller skating. And many gatherings of church organizations such as choirs, bible study. We never lacked for entertainment. We made our own entertainment.

-EC: Where did you meet your wife?

-HE: I met my wife, I grew up with my wife.

-EC: In Lyons?

-HE: Yeah in Lyons, Nebraska, we only lived about, oh, two miles apart. I went to school with her, parochial school, also public school, and we've always 00:35:00been friends. We don't fight much. And I married her in Seattle, Washington where her mother moved and she moved, following work. 1922, 16th of February, I got that right.

-EC: 16th or 15th?

-HE: And we started farming for ourselves in 1922.

-EC: Did you purchase your farm here in Lyons?

-HE: No I lived at home first.

-EC: Oh I see.

-HE: No we sold it after we got some money for it after a while so we stayed a bit more.

-EC: Were there any particular customs as far as deciding who you were 00:36:00going to marry or did your parents have any say so as far as who you were going to marry?

-HE: Well, of course, my parents, because of my wife's parents, were vibrantly interested in marriage where you had the same belief in God and salvation.

-EC: What significance did they feel this played--

-HE: Huh?

-EC: What significance did they feel this played in a marriage?

-HE: Tranquility, life long love.

-EC: Did you and your wife then live around Lyons when you were first 00:37:00married for several years?

-HE: We lived there for 22 years 'til we moved to Fremont 1945.

-EC: Now is Lyons where your children were born?

-HE: Yeah they're both born up there.

-EC: You have two children.

-HE: Two children. Ruth came along, Richard Eggert also came to us. I have the only boy in our family. All my brothers have either no children or girls, and my boy raised five boys and one girl.

-EC: Could you tell me your wife's name and where she was born and when?

-HE: My wife's maiden name was Emma Amalia Emma Marie Amalia Anna Rewinkel 00:38:00she was born near Lyons Nebraska, September the 16th, 1893.

-EC: Now is there any significance in the vast number of names that she has?

-HE: At the time of at that time when there was baptism, they usually had four or three sponsors and they used all the names because if they left one out then the other one wouldn't like it, if you left two out, the other two wouldn't like it, if you left the third one out, nobody'd like it. (chuckles)

-EC: Well then when they had selected the sponsors would they usually select the same sex sponsors then, because of the names?

-HE: They did at that early time but in later years they did mix male and female sponsors but at that time if you were a girl you got all female sponsors if you were a boy you got all male sponsors. That was the custom.

-EC: Then there was no religious significance to that it was... Were your children born at at home or did you go to the nearby hospital?

-HE: Both of my children were born at home here.

-EC: Where was the nearest hospital?

-HE: Huh?

-EC: Where was the nearest hospital?

-HE: West Point. Which is about 20 miles.

-EC: Going back to the time when you attended school in Concordia in Seward Nebraska, do you remember the cost of the tuition there and how this was financed?

-HE: The cost of tuition was financed by the parents. And it was, I believe, I'm not too certain, but I think it was only 60 dollars a year. And then you paid board and room, for lodging. I think the tuition was 60 dollars.

-EC: Was this for high school and college both?

-HE: Same tuition.

-EC: Did your brothers and sisters also go to high school and college here?

-HE: One of my brothers went to college that's the only one. Oh and one of my sisters too. My younger sister graduated from the University of Washington 00:41:00and my youngest brother he graduated from Concordia St. Paul then he entered the University of Nebraska and then he went... The schools superintendent in South Dakota after he got his master's degree. Then he was called in to Civil Service right after the Japs invaded Hawaii. He was stationed at Seattle Washington (audience member coughs) Civil Service commission. And he also was stationed at Denver later on and the selling of warship profits for two years then back again 00:42:00to Seattle (mumbles) and he ended up with with the defense department.

-EC: What kind of occupations did your other brothers and sisters have?

-HE: Well I had another brother who was a salesman for 40 years and I had one brother who farmed a while and then he was a plumber, helper. And my other brother was a farmer.

-EC: Were your parents able to visit you very often while you were attending school in Seward?

-HE: Well while I was there they only visited me once.

-EC: What was their mode of transportation then?

-HE: They'd take the horse and buggy to town, take the railroad to Seward. Other mothers were there for the dedication of one blue building but we did come get to come home usually twice, maybe sometimes a few times a year.

-EC: How would you get home?

-HE: The train.

-EC: This is primarily how most of the students traveled?

-HE: Yeah there weren't many cars at that time. They were just starting to come out. There were some cars actually by 1912. First car that I owned was in 1915. I drove.

-EC: What kind of a car was that?

-HE: Buick 355. It was a big car, seven-seated one. Big car!

-EC: Did you have a radio, television?

-HE: Yes we had we had radio. Of course on the farm we didn't have television 'til we came down here. Television was just in its infancy, not even its infancy when we moved to Fremont. But we got television soon after it came out.

-EC: What means of refrigeration did you have before the modern refrigerator such as we have now were out?

-HE: Well we had what they call ice refrigeration. Where you would go get the ice or put out the ice tray in the winter. And then get it out of the ice shed everybody, every two days you had to put in about, oh, 30, 40 pounds of ice 00:45:00in this refrigerator and it would keep your... Good refrigeration, very good refrigeration, ice is. But that's what we used to do.

-EC: Was this you and your wife or also when you were at home with your parents?

-HE: We didn't have any refrigeration besides the cellars when my parents lived. (tape cuts out)

-EC: Could you describe the ice shed that you were talking about? Could you describe the ice shed you were talking about?

-HE: Refrigerator or the ice?

-EC: Where you stored your ice during the summertime.

-HE: In the summertime we had, we dug a pit about eight feet deep, it had a roof on it and we would put sawdust we'd take the ice, pack the ice in there, we 00:46:00hauled, when it was zero or below weather, we hauled it from Lyons, about four and a half miles on sleds or wagons, packed it in this ice house, and packed it with sawdust to keep it from melting. Put a teepee on the outside, over the top, and you would have ice all summer, you go in there, use your tongs, cut off as much as you want with an ice saw, wash it off, take it in, refrigerator. And of course, naturally, that would drop water you have the spill pan below the refrigerator. Sometimes you'd forget to empty it and it'd run over, naturally, but. But it did the cooling perfectly.

-EC: What were the daily routines when you were living with your parents?

-HE: Oh, that was wonderful. Most of us always had our chores to do. Let's see, cooking, milking, feeding livestock when we got a little older. Taking care of the poultry. And we always, during the school year, we always had lessons to do at home at night. We played a tune or two. We didn't have the modern conveniences that they have now. Some of us had bicycles, some didn't. Some of us had motorcycles, some didn't as we got into... That routine, during the winter months when there wasn't so much work on the farm we'd cut a lot of wood 00:48:00that we'd use for stoves. Burned very little coal. Except in the later years we burned more coal, (coughs) the early years it was all wood.

-EC: Did you cut the wood with hand saws?

-HE: We cut it down we even grabbed trees out of the ground in the fall before it froze up. So we got rid of the stumps right away. And yeah we cut a lot of wood. (coughs) We cut it down and in the early years we used what they called a buzzsaw to saw this up in foot length, whatever you wished.

-EC: What means did you use to remove the stumps?

-EC: What means did you use to remove the stumps?

-HE: We used a shovel, ax, and elbow grease. Chopped 'em right out of there.

-EC: Did you ever use the horses or chains to pull them out?

-HE: We never did. Some people used big tractors, when the big tractors came in, the big tractors, if you had a lot of stumps. And they would, what you call, reach 'em out with the big tractor doing the pulling.

-EC: When did these first tractors come out?

-HE: Oh the first tractors, outside of the steam tractor, oh they came out, let's see, in about the gas tractors, oh in around 1915 the big tractors that they used to plow and thresh with and so forth.

-EC: So for most of your farming years then you had the use of tractors?

-HE: My later years they used the tractor for a great deal of farm work but when I first started in 1922 we used Charley Horses. No tractor.

-EC: Now did you purchase the farm from your father?

-HE: No. The land was still his 'til we sold it.

-EC: So it remained, a family...

-HE: Yeah.

-EC: Now, would you describe the socioeconomic status of your parents as poor, middle-class or, other?

-HE: Oh I was middle-class. I don't think they were ever broke after they got here. They were just that economical. They wouldn't spend any more... Nobody bought anything on time at that time. After he got started, when he got started, you bought your equipment and your horses, many bought horses that they didn't have paid when the horse died. And the lender would always, the money rate at 00:51:00that time when they started, was about 10%. And they would keep the first yearly payment. So if you borrowed 100 dollars we'll say, they'd only give you 90. But you paid the interest a year in advance, see?

-EC: Was this to ensure them getting their interest?

-EC: Was this to ensure the lender in getting their interest?

-HE: It was just a way for the money man to make more money.

-EC: Was this system used primarily then?

-HE: Yeah. All the old people who had money would... The banks would, at the time, the turn of the century or a little before, anybody went to borrow money, they would just loan, say you wanted to borrow $500, They would take off 10%, for the payment. They would only get 450 to work with. They never did get the other 50. And the next year they're still paying interest on $500.

-EC: Do you remember what the prices for cattle and grain were in the years of the Depression?

-HE: Oh yeah. It's very easy, I had a lot of them. I sold hogs for $3 a hundred, I sold cattle for $5 a hundred, and I don't believe poultry had any price at all but at the end of the Depression years, you couldn't get anything, nobody wanted it. I shipped a hog once down to Omaha and they billed, after I paid the trucking, and the commission, they billed me for 75 cents, I owed the commissioner 75 cents so they could pay the trucker who went and got the hog.

-EC: Did you belong to the union at all during these years?

-HE: No. Never belonged to any union.

-EC: How did you feel about the unions that were coming out?

-HE: Well the unions were oppressed so long, or the workers, and they didn't have any bargaining rights of any kind, but after they got in the swing, the pendulum has swung, probably too far the other way. They got too much power now. But I'm not communist so I wouldn't know exactly what the reason is or why it is what it is, I've heard, to my way of thinking, that they have gone overboard the other way. Usually that's what happens. People have been oppressed for so long, they start going the other way they don't know where to stop do they?

-EC: How did you feel about the administration of Hoover as opposed to 00:54:00Roosevelt or vice versa?

-HE: Well Hoover was a grand old man. But he got himself tied up with the money powers in the first place when he accepted dodgers or uh... (mumbles) Dawls... vice president who was a big international banker in Chicago and when the Depression was at its height Congress did finally appropriate three billion dollars to be spread out over the country but who got most of the money? Those bankers in Chicago. Cause we were on the edge of bankruptcy like most other 00:55:00national institutions practically all of your life insurance companies, all of those were practically desperate. They couldn't have lasted another year. Then when Roosevelt took over, of course, he found everything... He went just the other way right now see? Too much. And he got deficit spending right away.

-EC: So where one hand appropriated monies then the other one appropriated too many?

-HE: They went just a little bit wild on things, that is. They... Mostly they were trying to protect the consumer. But just the same, there is a happy medium in everything. That is where it turns out to be the best for the masses than big fluctuations.

-EC: Did you feel that religion played any major role when you were living through the depression and during the drought years?

-HE: Well, I know it did to me. I know that it... It strengthened my belief that there's somebody else leading you outside of your politicians. And you better listen to him instead of listening to the quacks.

-EC: Would you tell me something about the community life during the years at Lyons?

-HE: Yeah. We had a lot of fun. Did a lot of work and the gatherings were 00:57:00very sociable. Our relationship with our neighbors and friends, we all didn't have too much but we all got along and we seemed to enjoy each other much more than (mumbles) but I have no fight of any kind in Lyons. That has been soured to me at any time. It's been a very grand life, blessed, with a Christian wife, Christian children, and the luxury (mumbles) you can't express it all. And the 00:58:00friendship of our neighbors and what we would do for each other, most gratifying. Wonderful to think back on in later years. That there's so many nice people in the world who care and show you Christian love and compassion.

-EC: Was most of the entertaining done in the home?

-HE: Yes. Practically all of it.

-EC: Could you describe some of the business establishments in Lyons at 00:59:00that time?

-HE: We had, at one time, three banks, two clothing stores, beautiful grocery stores, some pool halls, never a tavern, and loan companies, naturally, insurance companies, dentists, always had a doctor or two, sometimes three. We still have a lot of trees there that my dad planted.

-EC: What made you decide to leave Lyons and move to Fremont, Nebraska?

-HE: I had the civil service deployment, I had to pick it up in '45. I picked it up in the United States Department of Labor. (mumbles) Then after the 01:00:00war was over they reverted back again to the states' Labor Departments, so then I worked with the state of Nebraska.

-EC: I see. What was your job then with the Labor Department?

-HE: Well I was a veterans employment representative of the Labor Department, taking care of veterans needs especially finding jobs, opportunities for work, and counseling with them.

-EC: What year was it that you moved to Fremont?

-HE: 1945.

-EC: Did you feel any of the effects of the the second world war as far as--

-HE: I went through it, the big effect was, of course, the exodus of discharges came in, oh, around '46 or '7. We had a great load of veterans coming 01:01:00back. Jobs not very plentiful, I spent many a day and many an hour all over my seven county area which I was serving then, contacting employers for jobs in practically every town, about a job for a veteran that could be placed there and I did set up all the employers that were willing to take a veteran to train, on-the-job training they called it, I set those all up in the seven counties, from Sioux City to the end of Saunders County and then the Board of Education, state of Nebraska, they gave out the certificates that they had the equipment so 01:02:00forth and so on, for the training. I set them up though, all up. Whether they were here, or whether they were in Thayer, whether they were in Fort Calhoun, whether they were in South Sioux City or Pender or West Point or any of those, I set all those up. I'd visit all those employers, tell them what I had, brought them the records, and tell them that this fella was willing to take on-the-job training where the government paid part of it, the employer paid the other part of it, while they were in training, 'til they got to be, so they did have time where they were training. Yeah I went through all of that.

-EC: Were there any specific companies that were more willing to offer jobs to these people?

-HE: Oh yes. I think it was good to a lot of the employers, they got a load of cheap labor, but at the time, for what they was putting out, and someone who 01:03:00didn't do the job as good training as others, but you have to do something, you have to create jobs for those people or they would move someplace else where there were jobs. Lot of these communities were saved, some of these good boys that came back out of the service, we'll say the top 50% of them, because they did actually take care of them. I remember I addressed a woman's club once, Columbus, when I had that area too, that was the same time, I did have 11 counties then, on this subject of what to do with the veterans coming back. We have no housing for them, we haven't this, we haven't that, we haven't got enough factories look at Columbus now, and that started that. And they still admit it. Talked to those people told them to get some decent housing for them 01:04:00to live in, room for their wives and family, if they had a family, get them some decent opportunities to work, and then this really blossomed in Columbus.

-EC: How long did you work for the Department of Labor?

-HE: Just about 20 years, I think, and two months.

-EC: When did you retire then? What year?

-HE: 1964. Compulsory retirement at 70.

-EC: You retired at 70 years of age?

-HE: Naturally. I did have an extension, the retirement age of employment service was then 65, but I got an extension from the governor each year for a year's extension till I was 70, then it was automatically withdrawn. The president even couldn't have kept me on.

-EC: No choice then. (laughs)

-HE: (laughs)

-EC: Could you contrast the city life with farm life?

-HE: Oh nothing to complain at all. They both suit me fine. I had a wonderful farm life, I've had a wonderful (coughs) life in semi-pro baseball had a wonderful life here in the city. I couldn't go back though, I wouldn't. I wouldn't be telling the truth if I did.

-EC: Did you find one place more busy than the other, as far as your life is concerned?

-HE: Well I, of course, spent the busiest time of my life on the farm, operating it, and also playing baseball besides, I probably, some days I put in 01:06:0020 hours, with four hours sleep, but then we were young and it didn't bother me too much. But life was grand. My family's been grander.

-EC: Have you had the opportunity for travels during your life?

-HE: Oh I did a lot of traveling. We traveled all over the United States many a time. Except those years when I couldn't travel because my vacation time was all taken up on mission work or church work but we've been, since we've been married I think we've been out to Seattle seven times, four or five times in a car, we've been down to California. we've been to Washington, DC, the eastern 01:07:00states, been to Europe, we've done our traveling, we quit couple years ago. '68 I told my wife, that's the last time I'm doing that, then we started again we drove through to Seattle last year. But I won't drive anymore. (microphone tapped)